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A complete transcript from Chinese Premier's meeting the Washington Post (2003/11/21)
( Part I )

温家宝总理接受《华盛顿邮报》总编唐尼采访
(第一部分)

Interview with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao on Nov. 21, 2003 by Executive Editor Leonard Downie Jr., Assistant Managing Editor for Foreign News Philip Bennett, and Washington Post correspondents John Pomfret, Philip P. Pan and Peter S. Goodman.

Premier Wen:

I know this is your first time in China, so let me start by extending my warmest welcome to you and your colleagues. I can quote one fitting ancient Chinese poem to describe our meeting: "Good friends highly value their words. They travel a thousand li to keep their promise for a gathering." In a few days time I will visit your great country. So first of all I wish to convey through The Washington Post my cordial greetings and best wishes to the great American people.

I remember only a couple of days after the September 11 incident I was here receiving participants during an international financial conference in Beijing. And among the delegates to the meeting there was one lady expert from the United States. I noticed that she looked very sad and lonely, so I extended my hand to her and expressed my sympathy, and I also asked her to convey my solicitude to the American people.

And this reminds me of the fact that China and the United States, two great nations, have had exchanges for over 200 years and across three centuries. And I remember so well so many touching stories about the profound friendship and good cooperation between the two peoples. In the 1860s, Chinese workers, by the tens of thousands, went to the U.S. to build the trans-continental railroad that links the east and west coast. The Chinese workers defied starvation and cold. Many other workers could not endure the harsh conditions. Only the Chinese workers stuck it out to the very end. Many, many Chinese workers lost their lives in the process of construction and there were too many to count. However, it was recorded in history that the last track was laid by four Chinese workers. Hence, in 1991, the state of Illinois sent a delegation to Shanghai solely for the purpose of building a monument with 3000 railway spikes and they said that the contribution of Chinese workers was essential in linking the east and west coasts and promoting national unity. I also remember very well that from May 1942 to September 1945 a group of young American pilots from the famous Flying Tiger squadron flew the Hump Route to support China during the war against fascism. The Hump Route was famous for its danger and in those years more than 500 planes crashed, claiming the lives of more than 1,500 Chinese and American pilots. That route was also known as the aluminum trail for the wreckage of crashed planes glittering in the sunlight. However, that route is a testimony to the cooperation between the Chinese and the Americans. The reason why I recall these touching stories is because I hope our interview will start in a good atmosphere of mutual respect and friendship.

Q: One of the current issues for joint Chinese and American action is the current situation in Taiwan. What would you like the President of the United States to do to help China deal with the current situation in Taiwan?

A: The recent remarks and activities by the leaders of the Taiwan authorities, especially their deliberate provocations on the referendum issue and writing a constitution, show clearly not only their obstinate clinging to national splittism but also their stepped up efforts at Taiwan independence.

You put the question of Taiwan to me. Actually, I have also been asking questions: What are the Taiwan authorities driving at with all that they are doing and where are they taking Taiwan? Do they still respect the cherished aspirations of the Taiwan compatriots for peace, stability and development? Do they really want to maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits or are they bent on disrupting peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits? I believe that these questions are of concern to the Chinese people and of concern to our Taiwan compatriots, and they are also of concern to the United States and the international community at large.

Our policy toward Taiwan is a clear-cut one. It is peaceful reunification and "one country, two systems." We will not give up our efforts for a peaceful settlement of the question of Taiwan because a peaceful settlement is in the fundamental interests of all Chinese people, our Taiwan compatriots included. But we will not sit by and do nothing faced with provocative activities aimed at splitting the motherland.

China's sovereignty and territorial integrity brook no division and the position of the Chinese government on upholding the one-China principle is rock firm and defies all challenges. I hope the U.S. government will recognize the gravity and danger of the provocative remarks and actions taken by the leader of the Taiwan authorities that would undermine the prospects for peaceful reunification and that the U.S. side would not send any wrong signals to the Taiwan authorities. And we hope that the U.S. side would take practical measures that are conducive to the maintenance of peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits.

Q: Are there specific measures that you would like the United States to take? Do you have specific measures in mind?

The Taiwan question is the most important and sensitive issue in the China-U.S. relationship. So on the question of Taiwan, the U.S. side must be very straightforward in adhering to the principles of the three Sino-U.S. joint communiques and in opposing Taiwan independence. The U.S. side must be crystal clear in opposing the use of a referendum or writing a constitution or all other tactics used by the leader of Taiwan authorities to pursue his separatist agenda. And the U.S. side must adhere to the principle of the Aug. 17 communique and refrain from upgrading arms sales to Taiwan both in quantity and quality. This will fundamentally help maintain peace and stability in the Taiwan Straits. It will also be conducive to the advancement of the process of the peaceful reunification of China. It will also be fundamentally helpful to the maintenance of world peace and stability.

Q: If the leadership of Taiwan continues to proceed along the road it is on, despite what you say and despite what the Americans might say, what measures is China prepared to take?

A: That is the most crucial question. I can clearly say this, Mr. Executive Editor, Taiwan is China's sacred territory and is an inalienable part of Chinese territory. No Chinese government will abandon the position of peaceful reunification on this question. We completely understand the desire of the Taiwan compatriots for democracy, and we also understand their hopes for a peaceful environment. However, when the leadership of the Taiwan authorities wants to separate Taiwan from Chinese territory, no Chinese will agree.

The Chinese people will pay any price to safeguard the unity of the motherland.

I assume that you are familiar with the words of President Lincoln, who once said, "a house divided against itself will not stand." So the U.S. federal government would never allow any of its states to secede from the United States. It is our hope that the situation would not lead to that point. Therefore, we still won't give up our efforts for peace.

Q: Another issue in U.S.-Chinese relations is trade. China is a very large trading partner of the United States. Recently, the Bush administration announced its intention to restrict some exports of Chinese textiles. Do you believe it will be necessary for China to take retaliatory action?

A: First, I want to say that the problems that crop up in our bilateral trade and economic cooperation must be handled properly. These questions must be handled properly because the expansion of trade and the development of economic cooperation between us serve the fundamental interests of the Chinese and American peoples. We all may need to recall that in 1972 when the door was open to our relationship 30 years ago, our trade was practically nil. At the time Dr. [Henry] Kissinger visited China, each visiting American to China was only allowed to carry 0 to spend in the Chinese economy. We only started to have statistics about our trade in 1979, and in that year the trade volume was less than .5 billion. Now, after 25 years our joint cooperation and trade has developed significantly and trade volume has already reached 0 billion -- that's a 40-fold increase. So you can see the development of such a trade relationship has served the interests of both peoples.

I am aware of the U.S. concern over the huge trade imbalance. I would like to give you a few explanations. First, such a trade imbalance is to a great extent structural and a result of shifting commercial relations. I will give you one example. While the trade deficit that exists between China and the U.S. is going up, China's trade deficit in our trade with Asian countries is also going up at the same time. In the first 10 months of this year, China's exports grew by 32 percent, however our imports grew by 40 percent.

Second, if you look at our export structure, actually Sino-foreign joint ventures or wholly foreign-owned enterprises contribute to 65 percent of our total exports and more than half of our exports involve the processing of imported material or parts, and the majority of profits actually go to the foreign investors. These enterprises include the U.S.-invested enterprises in China, such as Motorola and Wal-Mart.

Third, what we sell to the U.S. market are the products that U.S. consumers need, and Chinese products are affordable but of very good quality. So our exports actually help stabilize the price in the U.S. markets and also satisfy the needs of U.S. consumers.

Fourth, it is not China's aim to seek long-term and excessive trade surpluses. Our aim in trade policy is to have a basic balance between imports and exports. We are willing to open up our markets to buy more from the United States and other countries, especially to purchase high-tech products.

Not so long ago, we sent a few purchasing missions to the United States and they signed contracts worth billions of U.S. dollars. That demonstrates our sincerity. At the same time, we hope that the United States would grant market economy status to China and lift restrictions on China and open up its market. And we also hope you will lift restrictions on exports to China. I can give you an example. A few years ago, China placed an order for a Loral satellite and we paid a deposit of more than 0 million. However, someone in the U.S. did not want to see a Chinese rocket being used to launch the Loral satellite. Hence, the contract was not implemented and the 0 million deposit has not been refunded.

In reality, these restrictions will not hinder China's development. In the past few years, China has continuously sent satellites successfully into orbit and we also have our space program. For instance, some digital machine tools, some computers -- with respect to these projects, China already has very strong R&D capabilities and in certain areas were are actually at the forefront. Nevertheless, the United States still places these products on the list of restricted items.

Q: Given everything you've told me so far, were you surprised then by the action on textiles and is there anything China needs to do in response?

A: I'm not just surprised, I'm shocked and the Chinese people have been surprised and shocked. This unilateral restrictive action, occurring just at the time when the Chinese people were expressing their sincerity and involving textile products only worth 0-500 million and without any prior discussion with the Chinese government, seriously wounded the feelings of the Chinese people. I wonder if you have taken note of by the response by the international community and the reaction of experts in the field. Such a decision has hurt the US market. I want to invoke another Chinese saying: We should not be afraid of the dark clouds blocking our view because we are already at a high elevation. With respect to our joint cooperation in trade and in cooperation in other areas, it is important to adopt a strategic perspective like the view you would have when you are already on top of Mount Tai. Then all other mountains would be dwarfed.

We still hope between the China and the U.S. we can establish a mechanism for regular discussion and coordination and cooperation to tackle the problems that might come up. This will be one of the proposals I will bring to the United States because I think such a mechanism would play a positive role in solving problems. The establishment of such a mechanism will provide guarantees for equal consultations as a way to handle our disputes. Arbitrarily imposing sanctions or restrictions will not help solve the problem. On the contrary, it will hurt the interests of both sides.

Q: What is your thinking about the suggestion that changing the way in which the Chinese currency is valued would make a contribution to the trade relations between the two countries?

A: We first began reforming our exchange rate regime in 1994. It was decided at that time that we would adopt a market-based, single, regulated floating exchange rate regime. Some people claim the value of the RENMINBI is fixed and has not changed. This does not square with the facts. I think it would be more accurate to say that the band of fluctuation of the RENMINBI is quite narrow. Since 1994, the RENMINBI has appreciated in real terms by 18.5 percent against the U.S. dollar and by 39.4 percent against the Euro. In 1997, during the Asian financial crisis, we withstood pressure for RENMINBI devaluation and since then, the band of fluctuation of the value of the RENMINBI has been quite narrow.

The exchange rate of the currency a country should be set in accordance to its national conditions and the state of its economic and financial sector. There is no denying we still face very daunting tasks in financial and banking reform. We have already allowed our currency to be freely convertible under current account in 1996, and it will take a very long period of time and arduous efforts before we can achieve the objective of a freely convertible currency under the capital account. We are definitely going to accelerate reform of the financial and banking sector and while we do so we抣l explore how to form a rational mechanism in which the value of the RENMINBI will fluctuate on the basis of market conditions.

I don‘t think the exchange rate of the RENMINBI is an important contributor to the trade imbalance between China and the U.S. If there is any important contributor to the trade imbalance, I think it is the abundant supply of competitive labor in China's market.

Q: China and the United States are working closely together to try to assure that the Korean peninsula remains free of nuclear weapons. Do you believe that North Korea currently possesses nuclear weapons?

A: I am unable to give you an answer to that question because I truly don抰 know. But I can clearly tell you our attitude. We hope the Korean peninsula will be free of nuclear weapons, and we hope that peace and stability will be maintained on the Korean peninsula.

Q: President Bush has assured the North Koreans that the United States does not intend to attack. Are there other specific steps that you believe the United States should be taking to try to bring a resolution, to create an agreement with North Korea?

A: You must have also noticed that there has been some progress in the process of dialogue on the nuclear issue. The DPRK has stated that it does not seek to possess nuclear weapons and that denuclearization is its ultimate goal. And recently, it has also said that under the prerequisite that its security concerns are met and the United States abandons its hostile policy toward the DPRK, the DPRK is prepared to give up its substantive plan to develop a nuclear program. The Bush administration has repeatedly said that the United States has no intention to invade or change the regime of the DPRK, and that it wants to resolve the nuclear issue through diplomatic means, through peaceful negotiations. So in my view, the positions of two sides are now closer than before.

I think the best way is to continue with the Beijing six-party talks so that all parties concerned can sit together to have discussions on the basis of mutual respect, equality and mutual trust, and through such consultations they can, in the end, work out a solution that is acceptable to all parties concerned and that is helpful for the peaceful resolution of the nuclear issue.

国务院总理温家宝二十一日在中南海紫光阁接受了美国《华盛顿邮报》总编唐尼的采访。

温家宝总理:

听说你是第一次到中国来,我对你和你的同事们表示热烈欢迎。中国有一句古诗:“结交一言重,相期千里至。”再过十几天,我就要访问你们伟大的国家。在这里,我首先通过贵报,对伟大的美国人民表示亲切的问候和良好的祝愿。

记得在“九·一一”事件发生后的几天,我会见到中国出席国际金融会议的外国代表,其中有一个美国的女专家,我看到她的神情表现出哀伤孤寂,我向她伸出手,表示慰问,同时也请她转达对美国人民的问候。

我们两个伟大的国家,交往的历史已经有二百年了,跨越了三个世纪。两国人民友谊和合作的动人事迹还历历在目。十九世纪六十年代,中国数以万计的华工参加了美国横贯东西部大铁路的修建工作。他们不顾严寒、饥饿和待遇菲薄的恶劣条件,当别的建筑队伍都撤下来的时候,只有中国这支队伍坚持到底。最后一根枕木是由四位华工铺上的。无数人为这个工程献出了生命。一九九一年伊利诺伊州曾经专门派人到上海用三千个道钉做了个纪念碑。他们说,中国筑路工人的最大贡献就是沟通了美国东西部的大通道,并由此推动了美国的统一,这是一个重要的因素。上个世纪,一九四二年五月到一九四五年的九月,美国派了年轻的飞行员组成“飞虎队”,飞越著名的“驼峰”航线,支持中国的反法西斯战争。那是世界上著名的艰难航线,美国几年间大约损失了五百多架飞机,美中两国飞行员牺牲了一千五百多人。因为山谷里的飞机碎片在阳光下闪闪发光,人们称之为“铝谷”。它记载了中美合作的历史。我讲这段历史,就是希望我们之间这次采访活动从互相尊重、友好的气氛中开始。你可以问你事先提出的问题,也可以提你希望了解的其它问题。

唐尼总编(以下简称唐):目前需要中美合作处理的一个问题就是台湾问题,中方需要美方做什么?

温:台湾当局领导人最近的一系列言行,特别是“公投”和“制宪”的行径,充分暴露了他们顽固坚持分裂国家的立场,而且变本加厉地进“台独”的活动。

你问我这个问题,我也在问,台湾当局意欲何为?他们究竟想把台湾引向何处?他们还尊重不尊重台湾人民要和平、要稳定、要发展的意愿?他们是真的希望还是要蓄意破坏台海局势的和平与稳定?这个问题,大陆同胞关心,台湾同胞关心,美国和国际社会也关心。

我们对台湾的政策是明确的,这就是“和平统一,一国两制”。我们不放弃和平解决台湾问题的努力,因为这符合包括台湾同胞在内的全中国人民的根本利益,但是对任何分裂祖国的挑衅行动,我们不会坐视不管。

中国的主权和领土完整是不可分割的。中国政府坚持一个中国的立场是坚定不移的,是不容挑战的。我希望美国政府能够注意到台湾当局领导人破坏国家统一的严重性和危险性,不要向他们发出错误信号,应该采取有助于台海局势和平与稳定的实际行动。

唐:你说希望美国采取实际行动,具体是指哪方面行动?

温:中美关系中的重要问题是台湾问题。在台湾问题上,美国应该明确坚持中美三个联合公报,反对“台独”,明确反对台湾当局领导人以“公投”、“制宪”等手段推行台湾“独立”的分裂活动,并遵守“八一七”公报的原则,停止售台武器。这样做,从根本上有利于台海局势的和平与稳定,也有利于我们和平统一祖国的进程,从根本上有利于世界的和平与稳定。

唐:如果台湾当局不顾中美所表达的反对意见,一意孤行,在目前的道路上继续往下走,中国会采取什么行动?

温:这是最关键的问题。台湾是中国神圣的领土,是中国不可分割的一部分。中国任何一届政府都不会放弃和平统一祖国的立场。我们完全理解台湾人民的民主诉求,也完全理解台湾人民希望有一个和平的环境。但是当台湾当局的领导人试图要把祖国的领土分裂出去的时候,任何一个中国人都不会答应。

中国人民会不惜一切代价,维护祖国的统一。

我想你大概熟悉林肯总统的一句话,他在演说中曾经说过,一个“自相分裂的家庭是站立不住”。他还说过,美国由各州组成的“联邦乃是永久性的”。我们不希望事态发展到这一步,因此我们不放弃和平的努力。

唐:中国是美国重要的贸易伙伴,然而美国政府最近宣布,要对中国某些纺织品的出口设限。你认为中国有必要采取报复措施吗?

温:中美经贸关系中产生的问题应该得到妥善的处理,因为发展中美经贸关系,符合两国人民的根本利益。在1972年,就是30年前,中美贸易几乎没有统计数字。基辛格访问中国的时候,只允许美国人带100美元到中国来买东西。中美贸易有确切统计数字始于1979年,不到25亿美元。经过25年,中美贸易额达到了1000亿美元,增长了40倍。应该说,这对于两国人民都是有利的。

我知道,美方关心美中贸易逆差问题。我想说明几句,第一,美中贸易逆差是结构性和转移性的。当美中贸易逆差扩大的时候,中国对亚洲许多国家的逆差也在扩大。中国今年1至10月出口增长32%,但进口增长40%。

第二,中国出口的产品,65%是中外合资或者是外国独资企业生产的。一半以上是来料加工。出口产品中的许多丰厚利润,都被外商拿走了。这里就包含了美国设在中国的企业,比如像摩托罗拉、沃尔玛。

第三,中国出口到美国的商品是美国民众需要的,而且物美价廉,这些商品出口到美国有利于稳定美国的物价,也有利于满足美国人民生活的日常需要。

第四,中国不追求长期过大的贸易顺差,我们贸易政策的基本原则是进出基本平衡。我们愿意开放市场,从美国以及其他国家多进口产品,特别是高科技产品。

前不久,中国有几个采购团到美国,签订了几十亿美元的合同,表明了中国的诚意。但是我们也希望,美国也应该给予中国市场经济国家的地位,对中国不要加以限制,也应该开放市场。有一个例子大概你知道,几年前中国向劳拉卫星公司定购一颗卫星,并支付了1.3亿美元定金。但是美国有关方面不同意,因此这个合同至今没有兑现,1.3亿美元也没有退还。

实际上,这种限制完全影响不了中国的发展和进步。正是在这几年,中国不断发射卫星,甚至把飞船送上了天。一些数控机床、计算机,中国自己都能够研制,而且某些方面并不落后,但是美国方面还把它们列入限制对华出口产品。

唐:还是关于纺织品问题。尽管中国做了许多,但美国还是采取了这样的行动,这是否使你感到意外,中国还会采取什么样的措施?

温:不仅使我感到意外,也使我感到震惊,使中国人民感到意外和震惊。为了价值仅4亿-5亿美元的纺织品,在未同中国事先商谈的情况下,单方面公布这样的限制措施,应该说十分伤害中国人民的感情。不知道你是不是注意到了国际的反应和专家的反应,这种决策甚至影响到美国的市场。我又要用中国的一句话,“不畏浮云遮望眼,只缘身在最高层。”我们应该用登泰山一览众山小的战略眼光来看待我们的经贸合作和其他方面的合作关系。

我们之间应该建立经常性的协调和合作机制,解决经贸关系中出现的问题。这是我这次访美要提的建议。这种机制能够保证我们通过平等协商来处理两国的争端,而不要动辄制裁和限制。那样不仅于事无补,而且会损害两国的利益。我希望纺织品问题能够通过双方协商妥善加以解决。

唐:有人说,调整中国人民币的汇率政策有助于改进中美贸易状况,你同意这种观点吗?

温:人民币汇率改革始于1994年。我们当时确定的机制是以市场供求为基础,单一的、有管理的浮动汇率。有人说,人民币汇率固定不变,这不是事实。浮动的幅度小,这是事实。1994年到现在,人民币实际对美元升值了18.5%,对欧元升值39.4%。1997年亚洲发生金融风暴后,我们顶住了要求人民币贬值的压力。从那个时候起,人民币浮动幅度小了。

我认为一个国家汇率制度应该从这个国家的国情出发,依据它的经济和金融发展状况来决定。毋庸讳言,我们金融改革的任务还十分艰巨,我们在1996年才实行经常项目下的人民币可兑换,但是实行资本项目下的人民币完全可兑换,还需要长时间的艰苦努力。我可以明确向你表示,我们一定要加快金融改革,而且在加快金融改革的进程中探索人民币面向市场浮动的合理的汇率形成机制。

我不认为人民币汇率是影响中美贸易不平衡的重要因素,中国产品出口增加,最重要的是中国拥有丰富而又有竞争力的劳动力。

唐:在朝核问题上,中美之间正在密切合作,确保朝鲜半岛无核化。你认为朝鲜目前有没有核武器?

温:我确实回答不了你的问题,我真的不知道。但是我可以明确告诉你我们的态度,我们希望朝鲜半岛没有核武器,而且希望朝鲜半岛和平与稳定。

唐:布什总统已经表明美国无意进攻朝鲜,为使美朝达成协议,美国方面还需要采取哪些具体步骤?

温:目前朝鲜半岛和谈进程有所进展。朝方表示,拥核不是目的,而无核是最终目标。最近朝方又提出,在他们的安全关切得到保证,也就是说,在美国消除对朝鲜敌视政策的前提下,他们可以放弃核武器发展计划。布什政府也反复强调无意侵犯朝鲜,无意改变朝鲜现行制度,希望通过和平谈判解决朝鲜半岛核问题。应该说,双方的立场比过去更加接近了。

我希望最好还是继续北京六方会谈,各方通过相互尊重、平等互信、互相磋商,找到一个为各方所接受的和平解决朝鲜核问题的方案。

 
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